It's a Fake!

The Nova customs seem to be hot this yeah, one brought $100k.

 

I'm not saying that this is the car, I'm just saying, I don't know if the real deal was crushed.

 

I give a crap.

It's what seperates the men from the boys in the resto world, if yiu can't ake the heat get out of the kitchen.
I don't have a car like that but if I had the ways and means I would, and hopefully someday I will.
Pontificating about how stupid correct restos and matching numbers are ut of, jealousy never gets you anywhere, live and let live.

This numbers matching craze is nothing new, ask any Corvette guy.
The car being as close to what is was when it rolled of the assembly line is what some spend a lifetime working towards and if that's what they want it's absolutely nobody's business but their own, it's their money.

 

Yes, BV, you are as entitled to your opinion as much as I am.

If you feel the need to blow a wad of cash on a trailer queen to blow your wad, be my guest. I bought my project car to drive. What point is it to have a car sitting on pedestal? For everyone to admire? BFD. So you have a numbers matching whatever. It's a car. Drive it.

I am not jealous nor envious of anyone who follows this path. My best friend has three numbers matching AAR 'Cudas. I bust his balls all the time. He has a lot of time and money tied up into each of these cars. While I can appreciate their significance and value, the fact that they are numbers matching means nothing to me. They are freaking cars!

Before you accuse me of "Pontificating" (and I truly believe that you have no real idea what that word really means... no nickel for you) you should really try to read what I wrote instead of assuming what you state I am guilty of.

I never stated matching numbers was stupid. I never used those those words nor do I feel that way. I just don't agree.

So, let me ask you this... You have a 1968 GTO. Let's assume (the sake of arguing) that it is an all numbers matching just like the guy parked next to you at a show. In 2008, you had to replace your wiper motor or heater core or alternator... So because his car has the "correct" time date marks on his parts, his car is worth more is considered better than yours? Puhleeeeeze. Give me a break. BTW, you have a period incorrect battery in your photo. Some people would give you a world of crap about that. I am not one of them.

What amuses me the most about your post is that you are quick to point just how wrong I am because my opinion does not match yours. So what? That's why they make chocolate and vanilla. I am not passing judgement on the numbers matching craze, I just don't follow that train of thought.

FWIW... I dig both your cars but does a GTO convertible really belong on a station wagon site? Just saying... Oh, I apologize for pontificating again... LOL!

 

Whatever floats one's boat, I don't care BUT it does kill me to see muscle cars sitting on a pedestal as if they are art.
Most cars at, oh say Pebble Beach concour, are art, a big block four speed blah,blah, blah was and always will be a mass produced "unit" existing only to be sold. If some happen to be rare it is almost exclusively because they were unpopular(for whatever reason) in their day not because they were "special".
I snicker when I hear people going on and on ad nauseum over matching numbers and correctness. These things were hastily slapped together by uncaring hands to be delivered into hands such as my own to be unmercifully thrashed until they broke.
I personally destroyed the drivelines of a few now very valuable muscle cars as did some of my friends. I know for a FACT that one particular Corvette with all the "proper" documentation now has a restamped engine, I personally removed the original.
My point is that so many of these cars were abused to death or had major components removed for other purposes such as racing that the number of so called "original" cars remaining is very suspect.
Ever notice how when a particularly valuable one turns up after being abandoned for decades missing engines, etc. all the numbers matching parts seem to magically turn up? Detective work, my ass.

 

Yeah....I feel that blood, sweat and tears to get a complete car numbers matching is simply "one upmanship". Like Cas...I have a friend with the pole building and matching numbers cars....the whole 9 yards. It means nothing to me. In fact, it means LESS to me because he trailers his cars to shows. The cars I buy are for me. No one else. And I drive them because I bought the one I wanted so I could enjoy it. But, my friend enjoys going to shows, too, I guess. Although, his interest seems to have waned. He hasn't been to a show in a few years and his cars are sitting in the fancy barn he built for them gathering dust. Heaven forbid that he should ever DRIVE one. Jealousy has nothing to do with it. It's just different strokes.

 

Exactly my point, Ross...

The Pebble Beach Concours stuff is a whole different world. These are not the kind of cars I am talking about. My car club owns three Pan automobiles. I believe that are are like seven known to exist.

Hell, Jay Leno takes his Stanley Steamer out for jaunts around town... He is the ultimate hobbyist. He just happens to have a whole lot more money than some of us do. Okay, a lot more than just about most of us... LOL!

One of my friends owns a 1939 Oldsmobile that is the last known model of it's type and he drives it a lot. i asked him why he exposes it to the road and he told me "It is just a car. It was made to be driven and that is what i am doing."

Good point on the missing motors and re-stamped blocks. I have seen that crap as well. Seems fraudulent to me but, hey, I don't want to be pontificating...

Like Silver Fox, I bought my car because I wanted it. It is an awesome car to me. I had it for three weeks before i put it in storage (my garage) for the winter and drove it almost a thousand miles. Some people look at it and tell me I paid too much for it. I ask them, "Compared to what?" I don't care if you like my car because I do like it immensely. Hmmmm... maybe even borderline obsessive about it. LOL!

 

I have a slightly different approach. When I went hunting for our latest Chevelle I looked hard for a numbers matching car for a couple of reason. I know how hard I beat our first one, hard enough to grenade the engine, tranny and rear end. Replacements were readily available and so what if you beat the thing to death, that's why we bought it, to play hard and put it away wet. So the numbers matching, low miles thing sort of assured me that although the car may have been used hard, it was not hard enough to destroy it.

Now, that said, we drive it. Not like we used to, but that is more from a sanity and mature approach to getting behind the wheel than anything else. We use it, in the same way as we do our Safari. It is a car, it was made to be driven, and it is nothing more than a very large and expensive model car if it is not used.

Next comment though is that I am thinking of selling it. I can get serious dough for it from the people who do want a really nice driver and will continue to drive it cautiously. I want to put another one together that when I do thrash it, it won't matter. That is the major difference between the current Chevelle and our first one as well as the Safari. There are some situations where taking a large dollar and highly theft-able car out to play is not a good thing to do. Gravel roads, leaving it overnight in a hotel garage are a couple of things that come to mind. But I have all the parts to put together an almost identical car that if I blast down a gravel highway it won't matter if I chip the paint, not too much at least. The current Chevelle has a high buck as original as we could get it paint job, the other one will have an okay paint job. That kind of thing.

Like you guys, I'm not really a numbers matching kind of person, but when I was hunting for a car for the wife to replace the first one I wanted it to be special. Well, it is, almost too special. You cannot leave it alone anywhere. You come out from a store and there are people around it, notes under the wipers about selling it, or can they use it in their wedding or can their son borrow or rent it for his grade 12 graduation...........the things they come up with run from the mundane to the absolutely weird. So she is not enjoying it either and is to the point where she's reluctant to drive it anywhere for fear it will get swiped or damaged or she'll have people driving her crazy with questions and requests.

And I've already found the replacement Malibu, I just need to follow through on parting with this one. When it comes right down to it, I must admit though, it is very nice to get in to a brand spanking new 1970 Chevelle SS and drive it without a worry about the mechanicals, or how it looks. It brings back a ton of memories, all good, and that is going to be hard to see drive away. One thing I will not do is sell it to someone who intends to trailer it home. I will make it real clear that they show up with a permit or plates and drive it out of my sight. That will be part of the agreement to sell.

There, I feel much better now. Thank you for getting this subject rolling. I've been thinking about this for quite some time but this is the first time I've put it all in to perspective.

 

The car is on the stage for auction...right now!

 

The naval tag on the glovebox confirms that it was the ambulance's numbers all match.
If the car was indeed a fake,it would have been pulled from the auction.
However,they did not confirm it it was the actual car used on that fateful day.

 

Right. All the numbers add up to it being a legitimate car as far as it's vin to Naval registration goes.
So basically it is correct for a Naval ambulance that was in service in 1963.
It's a Pontiac and It's a Bonneville.

So, my question is if it's not a duplicate/fake of another car and it is indeed labeled, numbered and what-not in the proper way, how come it isn't the JFK car?

I haven't seen this question answered sufficiently enough.

I know there are photos of one being crushed and there is contradicting information.

As far as I can tell (from the information that has been presented) the numbers tell the story.

I doubt they would number 2 cars the same right?

 

I remember seeing an army green 63 Pontiac ambulance on base at Cameron Station in Alexandria, Virginia well into the late 70's or early 80's.
So the timing of the ambulance being obtained by the Kennedy library could well be accurate for the timing of the the destroyed ambulance. I could certainly see the Kennedy family wanting the ambulance destroyed, rather than have a morbid reminder of the family's loss become a collectable merely because of its connection to the death of a loved one.
I wonder what the hearse is worth that carried Elvis's remains, or Michael Jackson's remains.
Personally, I can see the value of preserving the 62 Ford Amblewagon that took JFK to the hospital. It was part of the details of the event and aftermath. The Pontiac ambulance is really a stretch as a significant connection. It wasn't even in Dallas. Whats next? The ambulance or hearse that took the casket from the hospital in Dallas to the airport? How about the collectability of a back hoe that likely dug the hole in the ground for the casket?

 

my thoughts exactly... franklin mint makes cars to put on pedestals!
if you have a trailer queen...(with the exception of uber low milage cars that are only driven locally) you basically have a big bulky, expensive decoration.

the world of wheels was in Pittsburgh this weekend. i didn't go because i really have no desire to see cars like a 38 ford hot rod that is sooo chromed out, that the owners won't even start it to drive it on to the trailer....for fear of smudging or getting it dirty.
if thats your thing...awsome but if i had 50k to put into my wagon....id buy another one or two of them...and put the rest into my house!

 

Hey Saf, sure wish you luck in getting rid of your old Chevy. I suppose you can maybe put an ad on Craigslist and see if you get any bites.
If I were you, I'd be sure to put your phone number and address in the ad, just to be sure you've covered all the bases.

Good luck, and don't take anything less that $2500.00. I hear those things are going up in value a little.

David

 

A year, maybe 2, ago, Steve Davis of BJ had a car they were not sure about its "provenance". I think it was a car supposedly owned by Buddy Holly. At that time, he said that BJ would rather scrub the sale than risk selling a bogus car.

I guess their concern about a cars "provenance" is directly proportional to the amount of potential money they will make.

By the way, they pulled the car mentioned above.

Chuck