Roof Racks Plus

My Mexican Paint Booth fell down. I didn't expect 55 MPH rain and golf ball sized hail, so I used only one 1" diameter galv. conduit as a crossbar and ropes to hold up a heavy Truck grade tarp (13' X 19'). I surgically removed my 'lazy bone' and did it right yesterday, and Mother Nature decided to surprise us with a flash hail storm with 65 MPH winds. It stayed put - my roller-painting 'spray booth'!

To the task at hand: In order to prep the roof, I took off the roof rack. The interior headliner was removed already to restore it and refinish it (SEM's Vinyl dye/plastic paint and Tear Mender for the small cuts.)

Where the legs of the rack frame attach through the roof (each one has two threaded phillips (star) bolts) that feed into a rubber coated insert. I have to remove them, but I think they're the type that are pressed in at the factory.

I'll find out today, but my question is if anyone has done this before and what kind of fasteners they used, AND what kind of sealant???:banghead3:

I'm leaning towards self-locking nuts with 'star washers' and using windshield sealant. I found one site of trailer owners discussing silicone as a big No-No, because of the acid effect on the metal (eventual rust, sooner than later - like within 3-5 years). So has anyone done this?

Here's the link to their forum thread on RV and Trailer Roof racks and roofing repairs:
http://escapees.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/372602561/m/2501068702

My long roof-mounted rails and gaskets are perfect. The rack mounting feet are a bit pitted on the surface, but I think I can refinish them. I'll make new pads for the feet though, using the inside fender well plastic from the 1978 donor car. I'll just trim them on the bandsaw. It's the same stuff. I'll just buff it smooth with 400 and then 600 grit. The old ones were dried out from the Mexican sun.

Anyway, what the best way?

I should add that I have the full set of Original 1978 Ford Car Shop Manuals, and there isn't a whisper on the roof racks for any models! The sealants they use for the moon-roofs or sun-roofs are the windshield type. Those press-nut fasteners are the rub, though. If you ever have to tighten them later, you have to remove all the interior moldings and the headliner and upper seatbelt brackets. It's better to find out now, me thinks. ;()

 

Here's another comment of the Silicone no-no:
He recommends 'seam sealer', instead.
http://www.autostalk.com/2089435-post9.html

And here's a site that recommends it for an after-market installation on a Fibreglass? roof?? (I thought broncos were steel roofs?)
Maybe the rear section is Fibreglass...
http://ford.off-road.com/ford/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=198402

The fasteners are sometimes called weld-nuts, but when I worked in the Aircraft industry I think we called them "Pem nuts" or "Rivet nuts"
http://www.pemnet.com/

They've got a manual tool that can be 'fabbed up' and a how-to:
Here's some related detail first:
http://www.pemnet.com/design_info/articles/One_Side.html

Here's the 'repair' tools (not in production line):
http://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/atlas/tools.html

The Atlas Hex tool looks easy enough to make up:
http://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/atlas/Hexwrench_Operation.html

And here's a demo using the air-gun version:
http://www.pemnet.com/design_info/atlas_brand_demo/index.html

Here's the distributor page:
http://www.pemnet.com/reps_and_distributors/

And there's one right in my town! Done!

Just needed to think out loud!

 

Norm, thats alot of info! Thanks for putting it up!

 

Thanks Stovebolt! I think Atlas Fasteners and maybe Acklands carry them too, here in Canada. If you've got a small airport with a repair shop, they should be able to tell you where to get them. The aircraft quality level is VERY Expensive, because of the documentation they need for Transport Canada's Inspection auditors, so stick with the same grade but for sheet metal or fabrication shops.

I'd suggest you get the type that have been treated with an oxide like Alodine (goldish colour) or the blackened ones (iron oxide blue-black colour). Galvanized are too soft and will loosen when in thin roof sheet metal.

 

It never hit Winnipeg, but the thunder shook the house. My wife and I were talking about the Lightning we saw in Guadalajara. Everybody has a wrought iron 8' high gate and the Natural Gas tanks are on the roof, but many homes aren't grounded, and when that hits on your street, you think "THE END". I can imagine how those folks felt about 100 miles southwest of us.

Incredible!

The hail was pea-size here, and golf-ball size near the Tornado sites. We're possible getting more tonite too!

 

Ford Roof Rack Update

Now that the Tornado warnings have abated, I finally got to take off the Roof rack fasteners. Ford has a better Idea!

The fasteners they use are reusable! On the inside of the roof they have a hex nut perimeter (5/16th or 9mm - Mexico is metric, like Canada). They're made of pot-metal and have a kwik-thread on the underside to 'snap-in' to roof's sheet-metal.

BUT!!!

If the roof's metal is weak, you'll have trouble reinstalling without firming it up with new metal. Alternatively, you could move the holes back or forward an inch or so, MAX!

If the old sealant is really hard, you may have to bend the roof metal out to force the kwik-nuts out, then flatten the holes with gentle taps (gentle taps, very gentle). It's really hard to get anything thick to tap against from the back side (inside the roof) because of the structural braces. If you've got a flat crowbar or one of those flat body irons to hold against while you GENTLY TAP the topside down. There's only about 3/4" to play with under there.

BUT!!!

If your roof metal is good AND the sealant gunk can be scraped away, then Ford gave us a bonus feature on those Kwik-nut fasteners! The topside entry (where the 1/4" X 20 ga. screws enter) has a 1/4" hex-drive recess, where you can insert a hex drive male wrench (ratchet or screw driver type) and push up from the inside while twisting off from the top side.

Reinstalling requires putting a good sealant all around the topside AND inside the threaded surface. I'd say a touch of Loc-Tite AND a putty-type sealant. Silicone could eat the bare sheet metal. I'm using rust-reformer (rustoleum/tremclad on the inside) and roller-painting with regular Tremclad/Rustoleum paint on the outside, but the Lacquer-based paints need at least a bit of primer on the bare metal on the top.

Keeping the paint from running inside is just a matter of putting some masking tape on the inside to plug the holes while you're prepping.

The Pem-Nut comments above still stand though if your fasteners are NFG (no good) or you can't get replacements (LTD Country Squires, Mercury Colony Parks, Villagers, Fairmonts, Zephyrs and Cougar wagons all used them up to the mid-nineties.)

Mine came out OK. I had to use a longer 1/4" X 20 ga. Bolt (3" long) and force them out, but my roof metal is in good shape, so I can reinsert the same ones. I may use some JB Weld on the inside just to be safe, and then put the putty sealant on. It depends on how flat I get the roof holes - Tapping VERY GENTLY.

See this excellent HotRod Mag Tech article on fixing dents:
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/hrdp_0607_dents/

 

Attaching Fasteners Blindly

I'm wrong, they aren't Kwik-nut fasteners! They use those in making Tooling Jigs, like this company offers:
http://www.jergensinc.com/default.aspx

Item 5 on this page, Workholding Components, might work on some Station wagons:
http://www.jergensinc.com/search_groups.aspx

Here's one pretty comprehensive reseller of one line that would do:

http://www.skygeek.com/tools.html

Using their Hex Nut units:
http://www.skygeek.com/ats-hnx-1-4.html

Check their variety here:
http://www.skygeek.com/hardware.html

These guys make Kwik-Nuts, but I can't see how they'd work. But their product lines might be useful for some jobs:

Pick your country here:
http://www.richco-inc.com/

This is the Canadian Office/Warehouse:
http://www.richcocanada.com/index.htm

And the US equivalent:
http://www.richco-inc.com/index.asp

I haven't called a Ford Dealership to see if the originals are available still, but I spent 3 hours on 4 search engines last nite, and couldn't even find one vendor (NOS, Used, Ebay, OE, etc.)!

 

Roof rack fastener tip

Found a Sticky!!!

OK, they are called Nutserts, available from most Fastener Supply shops, but maybe not with the Ford snap-thread feature.

http://www.prifast.co.uk/nutserts.htm

This fellow had a solution to replace the Ford-supplied bolts and nuts to hold the Hardtop removable roof on his Bronco. He kept losing the bolts, so he used these Nutserts. 9 months later, he reported that they work perfectly!

http://www.broncofix.com/viewtopic.php?p=1046960

He used the Countersunk head style, shown on the link below. For the Roof rack, the flat head style is closer to the original Ford fastener.

http://www.prifast.co.uk/head_styles.htm

You don't need a special tool for these, either.

 

Luggage Rack Better than Roof Rack in Searching Parts

Always learning...

I decided to change my Search Key Words to Ford Luggage Rack Fasteners and using the Advanced Search in Google, I made "Luggage Rack" a 'Must' and Ford Fasteners into "At Least One" of the search terms. Bingo!

Their catalogs are PDF downloads. Autobody Hardware has all but Ford types, but could be adaptable:
http://www.srfast.com/

This one has all kinds of Fasteners for ALL makes and for all parts of the car. Again the original Ford Roof rack fastener like mine is missing, but they have others for other Ford racks:
It's a 12MB downloadable PDF, but worth it! (Door hinge pins and bushings, hard stuff to find elsewhere):
http://www.wesales.com/

Need a 1928 to 31 Ford Model A Luggage Rack or the old Curb Feelers, this site has all kinds of stuff for all makes! Real nice site.:
http://www.prestostore.com/cgi-bin/pro25.pl?ref=partsnstuff&ct=56769

Good variety of automotive nuts, bolts and screws (body and engine):
The 'Luggage Rack' hardware starts at 30201 to 30311:
http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/products/list_products.cfm?cat=181

And this site also offers a great variety of classic and pre-1980's parts, but here's the 'Luggage Racks' and... DON'T GO here if you're in a rush, especially if you're over 50! It's like a complete study of all the old Hotrod magazine ads for parts, a modern museum store! Fabulous assortment of everything from Fibreglass Ford Roadster kits and frames, all the parts, flathead ford engine parts, and even Mustang II (Fox body) airbags, Tons of Chevy and VW customizing stuff! A lot of deja-vu fun! You almost want to buy an original AH-OO-GAH-HORN! :
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/d/225_Street-Rod-Parts.html

And the Essential Ford Part Numbering system breakdown for fastener parts. It's not a typical 'Online Decoder', it's even got the Luggage Rack parts code:
http://www.fomoco.org/Part%20numbers.htm

 

Making new gaskets

The mounting feet have a plastic pad between them and the roof sheetmetal. It just so happens that I hoarded the old plastic wheelwell liners from the donor car and found some 'flat spots' to cut the new ones from - same thickness - plus or minus a hair. Snipped off the area, drew the 4 new ones and cut them on the bandsaw. A jigsaw would have worked too. I sanded off the new cuts with 100-grit, then 400, then 600 to get a polished finish. Just have to drill the mounting holes.

I kept the old ones, but three of them were so brittle that they cracked or fell apart, so I figured this was my best option. They look sharp and stock!

 

I was checking out more sites about roof racks. Google likes "Luggage Rack", "Roof Rack", "Cargo Rack", as keywords.

This one has installation instructions for different truck, 4X4 and wagon models, and vendors for different types (bikes, bush-buggies, tires, ladders, skis, golf bags, etc.)
http://4wheeldrive.about.com/od/cargostorage/index_r.htm

This also has an Install routine:
http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/ab_vehicle_types/article/0,2021,DIY_13701_2271535,00.html

Here's a neat wrapper for what you load on the rack:
http://www.piggypack.com/index.html

And for the brave - a homemade PVC roof rack with pics and instructions :
http://members.aol.com/tfrecord/page28.html

 

The Pics Link is further down at the bottom.