5 speed conversion

My Catalina has a 301 in it and I have been considering changing the trans to a 200r4 for better mileage. Today I ran across a 5 speed from an 80's Camaro. I always preferred a manual trans and this got me to thinking. Turbo TA's came with manual transmissions and 301's.

Has anyone ever done a B body conversion using TA or Firebird components and did you run into any problems. I don't remember if the clutch worked off a bellcrank or was cable operated and will the pedals work.

 

Lots of guys have done it with the 90's B bodies. Don't believe I remember seeing any 80's conversions. I'm thinking it shouldn't be too big a deal but I haven't researched it.
Hopefully, someone will chime in that has answers. I like the idea.

 

As Siverfox mentioned this is a popular swap with the '91-'96 crowd. I'm sure some/all might be transferable to your car. My guess is the most difficult part will be mating a five speed to the Pontiac block which has the BOP bellhousing pattern. I'm not familiar with GM's RWD manual transmissions from the 80's and 90's. Hopefully the gearbox is separable from the bellhousing.

Either way it should be an interesting swap. It seems most cars these days are missing a pedal.

 

Considerations...

If you have a 301. Before you even attempt to try the swap, there are a few things to look at.

1. Is your 301 block drilled for a Z-Bar? (moves the clutch when pedal is depressed.) Look for this on the driverside. If you dont have this, you HAVE to go with a hydraulic clutch. More expensive and WAY more fabrication.


2. Is your crankshaft drilled for a pilot bearing. No getting around this one. Not drilled, need a new engine or pull it and have it drilled...

 

There is a guy on YouTube who put a T-5 5-speed behind a 4.1L Buick V6 in a 1980 LeSabre coupe...

https://www.youtube.com/user/ronanian

...so it can be done, but you'll need the bits mentioned in the post above to even attempt it. I think he had a thread on gassavers.org describing more of the parts detail. His videos cover most of it though.

 

Why not just drill a hole and use a bottoming tap to finish it?

But, well worth it. Hydraulic-operated clutches are nice

Or renew just the crankshaft. It shouldn't be a big deal to take the crankshaft to get machined by a competent shop

 

Z-bar hole is not a must have in the block. i have seen bellhousings drilled for them AND brackets with the ball on em that bolt to the bell bolts.

 

Pulling the crankshaft on a 1980 car, and you might as well rebuild the engine.

I have seen these for Chevy's, but not in the BOP configuration. Once you add an adapter, the geometry is off and you will spend more to get it right..

$0.02.
Dave

 

There seems to be a lot of bloviating and bench racing going on. When machining operations are done at the factory on the raw castings/forgings, they don't differentiate between parts which will be used in manual or automatic cars. ALL the operations are done equally. It is not known at the point what the component will end up in. In my 40+ years as a certified professional mechanic I have never seen otherwise. This applies to factory service parts as well. They didn't have different parts dependent on the transmission. If you ordered a crank, block or replacement engine, they fit all models serviced by that part.

In addition, the 301 came in 2 configurations, standard and turbo, the difference being stronger internal components in the turbo model. In 1980, they had made the decision to phase to 301 out of production and dropped the standard engine. All 1980-81 301 engines were the turbo engine. Thus anything that was available on a turbo firebird will bolt on to my 1980 engine. Since no 1980 Catalinas were offered with a manual trans, any conversion would depend on modifications or adaptations to clutch actuating mechanisms, cross member, and driveshaft, not to the engine itself.

 

While I agree with you, and not to beat a dead horse, I have seen Pontiac engines NOT drilled for a Pilot bearing. In my own cars. Maybe not after 75 though..
http://www.pontiacpower.org/PontiacCranks.htm

This thread might help too.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718412

 

What kind of cars did you work on???


Oldsmobile automatic crankshafts are not drilled for pilot bearings, and I'd guess some other manufacturers engines destined for automatic transmission applications aren't either. Machining well over 90% of the crankshafts for a pilot bearing for no reason doesn't make any sense monetarily on high production vehicles. The engines are different too, the manual trans engines have the boss for the clutch linkage and the autos don't.

 

Smallblock Chevies retained the bosses for the 265 mounts. I replaced mine with a 283 and ended up drilling the bosses for the early engine mounts. Back then, they must have figured it wasn't worth changing the casting only because of obsolete peripherals. This would only have made sense for engines which were planned to be replaced with entirely new designs in the near future. For engines which are destined to be produced in the millions, one could save plenty of metal and electricity, through eliminating obsolesence. Back then, metal and power were cheap

 

We worked on everything regardless of make or model including trucks. If it was too big to fit inside the shop, we worked on it in bay #6 (alongside the building). We also had the privilege to do some repairs on Mario Andretti's winning STP special and a blown Hemi Dodge once owned by Don Garlitt's. Infrequently, local dealerships would send us their used cars which their mechanics were unable to repair. That being said, my original statement was:

That does not mean I had seen or worked on every possible make and model to the extent that I would have had an opportunity to examine if the crank was drilled or not.

Again, I did not find it necessary to state the obvious, figuring that people would be able to intuit that information. IF a particular manufacturer did not offer a manual transmission as an RPO, then obviously the engine plant supplying the line building those vehicles would not supply engines so equipped. That would include upper end models by Olds, Buick, Cadillac, etc. The engines supplied to those plants building models with manual transmissions would internally be SPO engines even though it was offered as a production option on that particular model.

Bench racers are those who seek to rebut with arcane exceptions to the general rule of knowledge, thus dazzling us with their knowledge which has nothing to do with the original question asked, which was converting a specific model equipped with a specific engine. When speaking of specifics, we do not deal in generalities. N'est-ce pas?

 

AAaahh! where to start..... I can't begin to tell you how many T5's I've repaired or at least taken apart and then thrown away. They are fine in a light car with no power but fail miserably in a heavier more powerful vehicle. They flat melt...and don't think there haven't been different lubes tried etc etc. They have a different mounting position as well so the bellhousing will have to be re-drilled and the pilot hole in the bellhousings can be different as well. The crank pilot can be relatively easy to solve with a different pilot bushing but then input length comes into play. Buying a blast shield and using a Tremec T600 is a sweet way out

 

Comments withheld!!! see below

Heavier yes, but my car is hardly more powerful nor does it have more torque than a comparably equipped Firebird or Camaro. Plus it is sensibly adult driven. As I said earlier, my tire smokin' days are long over. (1 reason for your first statement)

And therein lies the greatest reason for failure and I learned it the hard way. Years ago I serviced my Blazer prior to a hunting trip in CO. Didn't read the specs manual. Drained the trans and put GL80 back in it. Headed out immediately after a blizzard had hit the plains. Halfway thru Nebraska I kept hearing a sound like static on the radio. Turned it off and was listening when it got worse. Instinctively, I pushed in the clutch and popped it into neutral just as it welded itself together in direct drive. Spent 9 days in the mountains and the trip back by starting out in 4 wheel low and shifting to 4 wheel high once I got going. In reading the manual, they called for 10W motor oil because it will climb the gears when it's cold whereas the thick stuff, or additives won't do that. After rebuilding it and putting the proper oil in, I made several long trips, both summer and winter with no further problems.

Have you been paying attention!! My car has the same engine as a 80-81 turbo Firebird. If my conversion uses those same components, it is a direct bolt-in proposition. No redrilling of any components required, only fabrication of linkage and X-member required.

A Tremec would involve all kinds of extra fabrication, probably including cutting out the hump and reshaping it among other things and the shifter would probably come up somewhere under the bench seat. I'm going for extra mileage, not racing or bragging rights. I asked if anyone had ever done the 5 speed conversion, not suggestions or opinions on what I should do. From the responses so far, it's obvious that no one has.