Engines

It just may be the operative choice.

 

460 V8 versus 300 L6
Well... after looking at matters, I see this:
Junkyard costs of each engine is about the same.
Rebuild, blueprint and balance between the two is very close to being the same price.
RPM limit is 5000-5500.
A fairly high mod 6 makes its peak torque ( about 350-390 ft/lbs ) at roughly 4500-4800 rpm which means that I have to spin it up pretty good.
A 460 with just a little head work, long tube headers, aftermarket 4v carb, and a mild cam and aftermarket intake manifold combo will make about 500ft pounds of torque at 3500-3700 RPM.
The total cost of the parts for the 6 are more expensive than the 8.
For engine longevity, I like to plan the 'sweet spot' of the engine at about 80% of max RPM. This fits with my plan pretty good with the 460.

The 6 is about 390-400 pounds assembled
The 8 is about 620-630 pounds assembled


With this in mind.. I am still leaning towards the 460

 

Scott, I may have missed it in this post, do you plan on EFI or carbed? We also have a 93 Ford F350 4x4 dually flatbed at work. Whether it's unloaded or loaded it gets about 7.5 MPG. It has close to 300k miles and keeps on ticking. The diesel trucks get a little better MPG but are always breaking down. Of all the vehicles that I have owned and company vehicles that I had driven, the Chevy 6.0L is my favorite engine. Tons of power and zero problems from the one I drove. You could find a take out 6.0L for decent price with no need for a rebuild and if you want to go carbed, there are manifolds to do that.

 

I am thinking that EFI is the best way to go> Better fuel economy, idle, and power.

This is the easiest way to accomplish that with great reliability:
http://www.fuelairspark.com/ezefi/default.asp

 

You can get a whole 5.3L or 6.0L for less than just the price of that EFI. Another $400 to have someone redo the harness, if you don't want to do it, and it will take just a few wires to make it run.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-0L-ENGINE...Parts_Accessories&hash=item51a5db3c71&vxp=mtr
This guy offers complete tested engines ready to install http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/moto...-3l-6-0l-turnkey-engines-starting-1995-a.html
Lots of good reading here http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids-28/
You're welcome to drive my 5.3L Eagle any time to check out the power. Will seem slow compared to your Charger, though. Not trying to persuade you, just giving you some ideas.

 

If you are going fuel infected anyway, then there is one modern engine to go with. The 5.3 out of an 07 or newer Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban or G.M. pick up. Get one wrecked, and you should be able to get the entire truck for a reasonable amount of money. It even gives you the frame and all wheel drive you want for you wagon, just put the wagon body of your choice on it. With a couple of minor modifications and you are looking at a vehicle that will return gas mileage in the mid- to high-20s on the highway, day after day, reliably.

Since this is an apocalypse escape vehicle, though, my personal preference would be for a carburetor and no electronic ignition. No electronics to fry from an electro-magnetic burst. Also, if it is torque you are after, the late 80s HO 351 gives you 390 ft/lbs at 2,200 rpm. The older, late 70s Ford engines don't have quite as much, but the torque peak is even lower in the revs. A 79 302, for instance, is 234 ft/lb at 1,650 rpm, in factory tune. With a dual exhaust, and set up right, it was enough to make a 4,080 pound Thunderbird quite fast enough for daily use on the local freeways, even with the stock 2.49:1 back axle ratio, and I was able to do a full 500 miles on a single fill. With overdrive added, it would climb noticeably from there, to getting on towards 700 miles on a single fill, with the 20 U.S. gallon tank.

 

The 460 is an amazing engine. I plan to one day build one with BOSS 429 heads and drop it in a 67 Fairlane. But that's another story for another day.

The engines that everyone seems to remember are the smog choked examples of the 80's. I don't want to spend a ton of time doing pros and cons and waxing poetic about these powerplants because this is after all opinion. So I'll try to be brief. A 460 can be built into anything you want it to be. As a Forum Member On the OFCC (Old Ford Crew Cabs http://www.oldfordcrewcabs.com/ ) I have seen many builds of the 460 that range from mild to wild. I am also personal friends with an Old school engine builder who specializes in FoMoCo and he swears by the 460. I could go on an on about it, but that isn't necessary. Done right they are very dependable and loaded with power. They will only get 10-15 MPG depending on build, likely closer to 10. In the end, if that's what you want, I say go for it.

I will say this, If I thought the world was indeed going to have some apocalyptic catastrophe (Which I don't. No offense.) I would want zero electronics on my engine. I would want as simple as possible. I would also want it to run on diesel or some other type of fuel oil since it would be likely the supply of gasoline would be cut off rather quickly. Even though it doesn't run on diesel I still think the 300 cubic inch straight six would be the engine I would want.

As a side note, the second option for me would be a 7.3 diesel. Either an IDI non turbo or the famous Powerstroke. I know that some folk have lambasted the 7.3 but from personal experience, they are the most powerful and dependable engines I have known. My personal truck is almost at 300,000 miles, and we have multiple 400,000 mile trucks at our business. And no, they are not always in the shop. Stay away from the later 6.0 versions. sadly, they are mostly junk.

 

I have modified EFI harnesses to work on non EFI cars and it can be a real PITA.
I was looking at the utter simplicity and time saved on having the bolt on system and not having to MAKE all that electronic snakery work. It IS bothersome to a great degree. I set up a 5.7New Hemi to run in a Little Red Express Truck. It was a nightmare. With the system that I had mentioned above, I only have one wire tach output and the system learns itself.
The other reason is that the system is transplantable on another engine without any real problem and the engines themselves are plentiful and cheap. The 460 Ford is available from many junkyards for about 300.00 an engine. The mods can be transplanted from one 460 to another with minimum issue.
I like the idea of the turnkey engine, but it means more $ wise overall and a LOT more work and complexity.
Plus, for the extra money for the turnkey, I dont see all of that overall gain.

 

I really do appreciate that Orth, That forum you suggested is going to be a lot of help! I was thinking about the diesel, particularly the mechanical 12 valve Cummins. The only drawbacks was diesel as it ages gets stuff growing in it. Plus, diesel will get harder to find than gas over time. I can run a gas engine on alcohol with a bit of work. To run a diesel on oil from organic sources means having to add sulfur content for top end lubrication and I have no idea how to do that.
The diesel is a very close runner with the 460 for sure, though. If I could get a Dodge Ram CTD for a really good price, that might sway things.

 

Doc all 460s are not the same. The EFIs are a bit different and require quite a bit of change to make an old carbed to EFI conversion. The EFIs also got most likey 6 t0 8 MPG some have claimed better. MY BEST WAS MORE like 13 so far been working on it.
I have built and run every pushrod engine Ford ever built including the Y block when I was 15, 50 years ago. Have also bult them for different purposes. Some for racing some for economy some for a bit of both.
In your case dont realy understand the real usage of your vehicle or what it is. New here and read through all the posts rather rapidly.

 

Any time. Glad to help.

 

A bugout-zombie attack- disaster event vehicle.


To convert a carbed to an EFI takes just a TBI system with a redone fuel pump system..

 

30 MILES per gallon? Kilometers, perhaps?
I'd like to know the details of this car, the speeds and conditions at which this is alledged to have occured and what sort of fuel you are using.
This is an extraordinary claim, roughly twice what these cars were know to get in their time.
Even more absurd is the notion that the AOD 4 bbl car would get 40mpg
Your claims strain credulity, sir.

I am 30 miles northwest of Chicago, 515miles from Hamilton, ON, Ca according to google maps. With that T-birds 21 gl tank you ought to get here with a hundred plus miles, or about three gallons to spare. That I'd like to see. In fact will buy you a steak dinner and top off your tank(18gl or so) for the ride home.
My arguement is not based on theory it is based on common knowledge.

Back on topic; I saw the vote cast for the 300" six and can attest to their robustness. As a teen I worked as delivery driver for a couple of different companies that had Ford vans powered by these engines. They endured tremendous abuse at the hands of myself and others who beat them like rented mules. We broke damn near every part that could be broken but I don't recall a single engine failure.

 

Muffler bearings, it's all about good quality muffler bearings:2_thumbs_up_-_anima

 

Our local NAPA, Discount Auto, and the not opened yet O'Reillys are all searching high and low for a case of good quality muffler bearings for Ford products. I plan on adapting 40% of them for GM use and selling the rest to Ford and Mopar members at a fair price.