Daily driver: 60's or 80's?

Hi all,

I am still looking for a nice wagon and it seems that there is a lot available at the moment for not too crrazy money. As many times before, and I am sure we have discussed this before, I am struggling with the question if I should go for 60's or a 80's wagon. It is ment as a daily driver, including some long trips to Italy. As I see it now:
pro 60's:
- styling, but that is personal
- more power because of no emmision stuff etc
- easier to maintain and work on, because of no electronics
pro 80's:
- newer
- often overdrive trans
- lighter (fuel economics)
- safety features
- more luxurious
- handling?

There are probably more, but these things come to my mind now. For example I have seen a 68 Chrysler T&C and a 1980 Buick LeSabre (403).

What do you think?

 

For daily use you can't do better than an 80s wagon except for 90s wagons. Disc brakes, restraint systems (shoulder harness/seat belts) along with modern ameneties like power windows, door locks, tilt steering wheel, working radio and they are much more efficient. I personally think 60s and many 70s wagons are not suitable for daily use. I am a big fan of electronic fuel injection and as I get older the power options and modern suspension comfort is a consideration for me. 1990s Buick and Chevrolet wagons are impressive to me.

 

That is my feeling exactly, Tbird. I have driven 60's cars as daily drivers a lot, but that was when I was younger and had no family. Not so long ago I had to drive a 67 Camaro and I was amazed by the noise, the crampness and the effort needed to drive it!
A year ago I had a 88 Caprice that was actually fine to drive for my style now and modern traffic, including long trips. The official cut-off date is 86 actually, as all cars before that are considered classics, which gives the really needed tax discount.

A while back I drove a 84 Ford LTD wagon, but I really have to admit that the 302 in the original configuration is too slow for my taste. It doesn't need to be a race car, but this really had no reserve at all. I guess the Buick 403 is a bit better, but increasing the compression a bit is not a bad idea anyway, it makes the engine come to life at least.

 

You didn't say so, but I am assuming you are wanting an American wagon?? If so, I understand your tax issue, so I will stay '86 or older in my research and come up with some opinions.

Being in Europe, there are issue to consider that allot of people here won't realize.

 

Senri, if you are talking about a wagon for just daily driver use, and not any consideration for it being a classic American wagon, what's wrong with one of the last Volvo 9-series wagons, with their 6-cylinder in it? (known here in the US as the 960, or near the end of the run, the V90) Should be a lot easier for you to find as well......

 

I recently looked at a '95 Mercedes Wagon w/125,000 mi. [just broke in] because he said it'd hold a 4x8 sheet of plywood!
Nice, but he wouldn't budge from $6k!
Some of those should be in Europel
Best of all worlds!

 

An 80 Buick wagon with a 403??? Grab it!

 

You didn't mention price, or maybe that's not an issue. I don't know about there but here in the states an 80's car is about a 1/3 or less the cost of a 60s.
I just picked up a one owner, '87 Caprice 9 passenger wagon, fully loaded and only 83,000 miles on it for $1000. It's very clean inside and out. It is only a 5.0 but works great for a daily driver for me.
Good luck with your search.

 

Thanks for all your comments! I will try to answer most of your questions.

Yes, I am looking for a classic american wagon. I fell in love with them since I was a kid, and had them many times. Since having a family, reliability, ease of use and maintanance is very high on the list so I have switched with modern cars more then is good for me. Although I have had some very nice modern cars, I can't get the feeling away for a US classic!

A bit more then a year ago my wife agreed to try a classic. Spent about 10k euro on a 1988 Caprice (with a 1983 registration.....), including new wheels, new LPG, new carpeting etc only to have to spent another 600 euro's to get the airco fixed and still have a enormous sluggish 307 car that was loosing oil a lot. That was the moment my wife stepped in (and she is Italian, do I need to say more?)

All those very low compression 302, 305 and 307's is what you see a lot here in the 80's cars and even though these "full" size cars often weigh about 500kg less then their 60's forfathers, certainly in combination with LPG conversions they are very slow.

As always, price is certainly an issue and selling my current car will determine the limit. In exactly the same condition, a 60's car will be worth more then a 80's cra, but often the latter ones are in a better state. Personally I always looked at the mechanical side, but you can probably all understand when having afamily that has to travel in it as well, the interior is almost as important. The trips to Italy also make airco a must.

Just a few of the cars I have spotted now to give you an idea what is available and more or less in my price range including the issues:
- 1966 Buick Sportwagon 340 (airco?)
- 1968 Chrysler T&C 383 (interior)
- 1971 Olds Vistacruiser (airco?)
- 1972 Ford LTD Country Squire 429 (airco dismantled)
- 1976 Olds Cutlass wagon 350 (no LPG but cheap)
- 1977 Chevy Impala 350 (no LPG)
- 1979 Chevy Malibu Classic 305 (airco?, no LPG)
- 1980 Buick LeSabre 403
- 1981 Mercury Colony Park 305 (no LPG)
- 1985 Chrysler T&C 2.5T (no LPG, but not really needed)
- 1986 Buick Century wagon 2.8 (airco?, no LPG but not really needed)

These are all cars in the range of up to 6000 about. Think that LPG conversion is about 2000. A lot of the 70's and 80's have these brown interiors, which is not my favourite. And I like big cars. These last two arguments keep me looking at 60's cars as well. I always thought the oldest would be around 1968, as they started more and more with disc brakes etc, which is certainly something to consider.

 

Problem with any wagon of this vintage (60's or 80's) is always going to be wear & tear, as well as the dreaded tin-worm. 60's wagons of course also come with less comfort features, and the interiors are usually a little more deteriorated. Either way, you should expect to spend $$$ on repairs - especially if you want to use it as a daily driver.

Personally, I'd be looking for a 60's wagon in as good a condition as possible - there's nothing like that 60's style - and who cares about the creature comforts? But be prepared to spend a bit of time either repairing rust or preventing it. As far as motivation is concerned, slow is a perfect excuse to build up that killer donk or go for the complete late model driveline transplant - How cool would that be? Power, economy & style!

I don't know why you didn't upgrade the 307 in the 88 Caprice? There is so much available so cheaply from the US for the Chev V8s - how big do you want to go? - And you had the perfect excuse! (just tell the missus all you did was rebuild the old engine).

 

Here in sweden we have the same tax issue as you and i totally understand your point there.
I made a simple choice, in a complicated way.. I will run my -72 Buick with a chevy 350 TBI and a 700 trans just to get the power, and mpg in the same equation.. Just to get it right the first time, i swapped the rear into a newer one, with the same gear as the donorcar.. At the shop i worked in (see the thread about my crappy week) we have been doing this swap on customers cars, at a really affordable price, when you considder the bonuses you get out of the swap.. Cold start convenience, mpg, driveability, and the power.. I will haul a big ass camper behind the buick and i know from experience that it will work just fine. If you dont want to spend all that money/time i would go for a -80,s GM car.. Here in europe, i think its a little bit harder to cheat the government of there taxmoney, but hey, i read somthing about a late 80,s car with some -83 papers:2_thumbs_up_-_anima
I am not the slightetst embarrased that i have been driving around all of europe in a -87 customcruiser 6,2 diesel with the title from a un-taxed -78 caprice..

So.... The sum of all my blablabla, is: GO for late 80,s tech! It will always pay in the long run..

 

I'm kinda partial to Mopars and Buicks, but the one that stands out on your list is the 71 Vista Cruiser. To me, the VC is the coolest station wagon ever made.

Cheers,
Ken

 

Senri, a 1958 Chrysler New Yorker wagon with the 392 Hemi and you could even get them with Fuel Injection from the Factory. Huge, comfy and tank-proof! Even a Benz couldn't catch them! But buy shares in Shell to offset the MPG.

http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/index.htm

http://www.imperialclub.com/index.htm

 

Too bad you can't go newer than 86. My 94 Buick is awesome. So much power from the LT1 350 you want to race everyone. It's slightly modified so it's even faster approx. 310 hp/385 ft-lbs. Maybe you could get the engine/trans/computer out of a 94-96 GM wagon and put it in an 86 or older. That would be the best of both worlds for you. I would actually get a 65-76 GM wagon if I were you. Those are beautiful and HUGE. 71-76 GM being the largest wagons ever made by any manufacturer.

 

I think you are right and for my purpose, the newer the better. As mentioned by the Wagonmaster: a begin 90's would even be better, but finding a nice pre 86 wagon and a good donor car (including all the computer stuff etc) will probably a bit costly and ou of my budget. I agree it would be a dream combo though!

A vistacruiser is certainly a favourite on my list as well. The 66 Buick sportwagon is considering that one of the best on the list in my opinion. Not full size, so a bit lighter and the extra windows. Further more, I have been a big fan of Chevelles (I had a 68 Malibu and a 66) and I was even chairman of a Euopean Chevelle/Beaumont club. The buick is of course a derivative and so very close....

@Norman: yeahhh, Imperials. Shame they don't come in wagons (normally). I have had a 65 Crwon with the 413 engine. What a styling!!! And the quality could be seen even in the smallest details, like window switches. But alos new futures like an automatic dim light function for the highway. Really a great car!

Ahh well, it seems that even with my limited budget, there is a lot of choice at this moment. I am still a drawn by 60's styling and power, but the often better state, the comfort and the nicer interiors for the SWMBO including sound insulation, make the (late) 80's a better choice.

I will keep you updated!!!