R12a A/C question

Has anyone used R-12A refrigerant in their R-12 system? If so, how did you find it compare to R-134?

I have been doing a bunch of reading about R-12a, but it is hard to find real reviews.
Most people seem to think you're talking about R-12, or they claim that R-12a is wildly explosive. (it's no more explosive than r-134)

From the reviews I have seen, people claim that it works better than 134 in r-12 systems, and wanted to see if anyone here could add their two cents.

Just so you can see, this is what I'm talking about.
http://www.redtek.com/English/product.asp?ID=18

Also known as Duracool.

 

R-12 and 134 is automotive and r-22 is household a/c confusing.

 

Thanks for catching that. I hadn't finished my coffee yet!

 

I am confused. When did R-22 enter the conversation? I guess the big advantage that it has is that it is compatible with PAG and R-12 mineral oils? Still seems kind of expensive and if I was going to go through the trouble of converting a system I would probably go through and replace/flush everything out anyway. I also don't understand what they mean with their can volumes. They list a 6 ounce can as 18 ounce equivalent. 18 ounce equivalent to what? R-12? R-134a? Does this mean an R-12 system will require 1/3 the refrigerant when using R-12a?

 

He edited after my post and changed his original post. No more confusion.

 

Here's their conversion chart.

http://www.redtek.com/win_12a_weightequiv.html

And yes, it looks like it uses 1/3 the amount of R-12a than R-12. So, since my system calls for 3.5lbs of R-12, I'd only need 1lb 2oz of Redtek.

I've also already had my system converted to R-134, and it just isn't good. I have to fill it to a higher pressure than what it calls for, and I always have to top it off at the beginning of the summer.

It's just not as efficient as the R-22 was, and I was looking for something better than the R-134. Especially since the FDA has said that R-134 is being phased out by the end of 2020 for new vehicles. I'd rather be on the front of 134 disappearing, rather than waiting until it's gone before figuring out what to do.

 

I topped up my 85 Mercedes with the R12a on Saturday, it's been pumping pretty cold air for two days now, quite a change from my magnum's system.

 

As long as your system isn't leaking, it'll work provided the rest of the AC system functions. The only issue is it isn't certified for automotive use, so you're on your own regarding keeping it running and working. Most shops won't touch a system with it as the EPA fines are pretty nasty.

 

Try ten to fifty THOUSAND dollars PER infraction. The EPA is not messing around.

 

It sounds like you have a leak then. You would be better off adding some refrigerant with UV dye in it, finding the leak, fixing it, and refilling with the proper amount of refrigerant. You can kinda sorta get the system working by filling to a pressure, but you'll never really know if you are over or under filled which can both affect the system efficiency. The best way is to fill by weight.

 

I just heard that the powers-that-be said that air conditioning is worse for humans than terrorism now so I think everybody should just junk their A/C equipped cars and this thread should be shut down and banished for eternity.

There were 20 old refrigerators sitting in the lot waiting to be picked up at the college I was doing work at and a homeless guy took a hatchet and evacuated all the refrigerant so he could take the coils for scrap. It sounded like somebody cut the valve stems off 20 semi truck tires and there was a cloud above the lot. The college students were totally oblivious, they only care about burning couches on lawns, there's always one smoldering somewhere on campus.

Why not just use R-12 in your R-12 system?
A guy I know is a Mopar dealer mechanic and he got all the R-12 they had left, a top off for a six pack of cheap beer, a full charge for a case.

 

Haha, I hope John Kerry isn't one of 'the powers that be'. If he is then we have bigger issues than ISIS!

If I could find someone licensed and selling R-12 for anything close to a case, I'd bring them two cases of good beer! I have looked into it, but no one seems to still have the necessary permits to deal with it. =(

 

I don't have a leak. I just need to top it off at the beginning of the summer. Once it is filled, I'm good for the rest of the year. When I retrofitted my system to R-134, I didn't replace to hoses, as my system held a vacuum. Since I don't have the newer style "barrier" hoses, I lose some 134 over the course of the year. Losing 134 through the rubber is not the same as having a leak.

 

Eh. Tomato/tomato. You are losing refrigerant. If it were me I would just replace the hoses, refill with R-134a and be on my way. You don't mention what car you are looking at doing this to.

If you really want to be cutting edge, why not just convert over to the new R1234yf?

 

A leak is a leak is a leak. These are sealed systems from the factory and if you are not fully charged after some time, it's leaking. The barrier hoses are cheap to replace (I did mine this past winter), the o-rings are cheap, and it's a good time to just get the system in tip top shape. I can understand topping off a beater you're going to sell or scrap, but for a car you intend to get good use out of for a long period of time it makes sense to do it right and not have to do it every year.