I need help guys. Last night my '89 caprice's transmission let go, it slips completely in all the forward gears. I was coming down a long hill using low gear for several minutes and when I put it back into OD at the bottom it seemed to skip a little but it was still making power well enough. I got off the freeway at my exit and stopped at a red light, when the light changed I was reving high but barely creeping through the intersection. I pulled over and this is what I figured out: -All the forward gears make essentially no power any more. -Reverse seems to work normally. -The fluid is at a normal level and not discolored or burnt smelling. I don't know if this is related or just an amazing coincidence but the water pump also seems to have blown the gasket at the same time. I must have just happened within a few minutes of me pulling over because there was still a ton of coolant left and the temp was still in the normal range. I don't see how they're related but, like I said, the timing is too coincidental. Earlier this week but just a few miles ago I also topped the power steering fluid and oil. It's a 200-R4 transmission, is it toast? Why does reverse work but all the forward gears slip completely? Is the water pump just a red herring? Thanks.
Sounds like a rebuild is needed. I had a similar problem with a Powerglide I had in a '63 Biscayne. If I was feathery light with the throttle than I could accelerate but anything more aggressive caused massive slip. I did find that by shifting into low I could accelerate normally and than manually shift into drive. Regardless, I yanked that trans and in went a $50 junkyard TH350. That may be a lower cost alternative than paying the $1K or so for a rebuild.
Yeah, that sounds like a rebuild kid.:banghead3: You 1-2 and 3-4 clutches have had it. Reverse is on a band b ut the clutches can cook and not affect the reverse. Then again,.. It could be the pump? Good luck with that. Dave
200 4R's get a bad rap. The one in my 86 Monte Carlo SS was rebuilt at 210,000 miles, not because it needed a rebuild, but because it started a leak. I figured, rather than reseal it, go ahead and rebuild it. It earned it.
The 2004R uses a common Forward clutch pack for all forward gears. Second is a band, third releases the band and brings on the Direct clutch and fourth adds the Overdrive clutch pack to the mix. Reverse uses the aforementioned Direct clutch and a Low/Reverse clutch pack in tandem. Sharkbait's tranny seems to have smoked the forward clutch based on his description. I concur with Buster on the reputation of the 2004R. It has proven to be a very capable, durable transmission when built correctly. I've had good service out of them in my Grand Nationals. The old 200 Metric 3-speed however... Matter of fact, I replaced the 200 Metric in my Cutlass with a 2004R.
What is a 200 Metric? The transmission that's in there has "metric" stamped on the bottom of the pan and that matches the pictures in my service manual labeled 200R4. I went to a junk yard today and the guy showed me a tranny that his computer said was the right one but it didn't have that stamp on the pan. He said it was a TH200 that came out of a Monte Carlo, he didn't speak English real well so I'm not sure we were completely on the same page but that's the same transmission right?
TH200 and TH200R4 are different, I should do a quick google search before I post next time. I guess I'll go back and ask him for a transmission out of an '89 grand national or something.
The TH200 or 200 Metric is a three speed. The 2004R is an overdrive version of the TH200. The 2004R pan is long and sort of pointed at the rear whereas the TH200 pan is more square. Oh, and the Grand National went out of production in 1987. The 2004R was so used in wagons until 1990.
Nemo... I mean Sharkbait (sorry, watched "Finding Nemo" with the kids today ) Here is a little rundown on the history of the 200-4R. Once upon a time, Buick and Chevrolet produced their own 2 speed automatics, the Powerglide and the Super Turbine 300 (they also built a version for Oldsmobile known as the Jet-A-Way). Hydramatic division of GM made a premium, heavy duty 3 speed automatic known as the TH-400 (though Buick called it the Super Turbine 400 in their literature). Buick and Chevrolet were in a situation where they needed a lighter duty 3 speed automatic to replace their aging 2 speed units in vehicles that did not warrent the strength and cost of the TH-400. They also needed a 3 speed automatic in their lower cost lines to compete with Chrysler's Torque Flight and Ford's Cruise-O-Matic (C4) 3 speed automatics. Hydramatic Division was not interested in selling a lower cost version of the TH-400, so Chevrolet and Buick combined forces and designed a medium duty 3 speed automatic transmission now known as the TH-350. It was originally known as the CBC 350 (Chevrolet Buick Combined) until the GM brass made the two divisions give up the design to Hydramatic Division, which assumed control of all R&D on this unit in the early 70s. Much like the TH-400, the TH-350 was overbuilt, and although that made it strong, it also made it less efficient. In the mid to late 70s, as fuel economy became more important, a lightened up TH-350 called the TH-200 came out. It was a light duty 3 speed automatic that was designed to be more efficient than the TH-350. The early 200s were not great units, but with reasonable maintenance and a light right foot, they held up reasonably well. The trouble began when the 200-C came out. The 200-C was a lock up converter version of the 200. It suffered many failures due to converter clutch design flaws, excess engine vibration related stresses (remember that a conventional automatic is isolated from the power pulses of an engine by the fluid coupling) and overall marginal design of the unit to begin with. The 200-C became a major disaster for GM, and was soon phased out in favor of a lock up version of the TH-350, the 350-C. Before the 200-C phaseout, GM needed a 4 speed overdrive automatic transmission for passenger vehicles. The 200-4R was designed from the 200-C. The engineers corrected the 200-C's shortcomings as they designed the 200-4R and incorporated these improvements into very late 200-C transmissions. In fact, there are people that substitute the 200-C's failure prone pieces with the improved parts of the 200-4R. The 200-4R is a distant cousin of the TH-350 and 350-C transmissions. It also is a reasonably strong box, and is arguably stronger than a 700R4. It has the ability to deal with serious performance in the form of the Grand National and the GNX, and if well maintained and not severely beaten, it can last a long time. However, they are mechanical devices, and can wear out and fail. It would seem as if the forward clutch is the culprit. Sorry about your luck, however, if you have your unit re-done, ask the trans shop to be sure to incorporate all the upgrades and improvements made over the years. You want your box to be as close to a 1990 model year unit as possible. Automotive History 101 is over for the day. We now return you to your previously scheduled debauchery!
I had a 200R4 in my 84 Delta 88. I owned the car for 18 months from new. In that time, the transmission was rebuilt 3 times for various problems. On top of that, the transmission was out twice more to reattach the flywheel which came loose. The advice above is right, get it rebuilt, but with all the later upgrades included.
