Looking for a Wagon, got questions!

I put some of this info in the intro section, but came in here looking for some more ideas. My wife and I currently have a 2005 Mazda3 HB with a 5spd. Great car, great gas mileage (consistently 30-33 mpg), and fun to drive. The biggest problem is that it's getting small with the second car seat in it. We've come to the realization that we need to get something larger, and we are debating between a large classic wagon (50s-early 70s) and a modern minivan. We would be selling the 3 and using the proceeds to fund the next vehicle.

My wife likes the idea of an older car, as it would be unique and different. I'm a fan, because it won't tank in value like a newer rig, plus I'm a car guy with 90w in my veins, so the older cars are more exciting to me. Most likely, if we went this route, we'd get something that has been mostly restored, or an older restore. If the brakes hadn't be updated to at least disks in the front that would be a high priority. Then, if we have enough money left over to add FI to the car, and maybe see about a 5spd auto, and taller gears to help with the gas mileage.

So, my question to y'all is this: Are we crazy for thinking about doing this? This would be our all-purpose family vehicle. Vacations, doctor visits, church, grocery shopping, the whole gamut. Is there anyone out there using one of the older cars for this purpose? If so, what are some of the real-world mileage numbers you're getting? A new Honda or Toyota van gets 24ish hwy mpg, I would think it would be possible to get that with the right setup on a classic wagon.

Thanks for reading my post and I'm looking forward to learning more about the longroofs!!

 

Hi Carp, I have driven these cars most of my life in exactly the way you want to. I cuurently have a modern car, but that will change soon! The discbrake option is a good one, I have the same opinion. Gas milage is another thing. If you would go for a full size wagon, I don't think you would get 24 mpg, but I guess that 18 orso would be possible, assuming you won't have the biggest engine.

 

Your best bet for better gas mileage would be cars made during the Energy Crisis years (1975 to 1985) and maybe later. A mid-sized wagon like a Malibu, Fairmont/Zephyr, or a Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth mid-size or a Mercedes diesel wagon.

The fullsize wagons were heavier by almost 2,000 lbs. Almost any of those mide-size wagons weighed less than 3,000 lbs, and had enough power and reliable 6-cylinder or 4-cylinder engine options that can be built safely to be more powerful.

After that, there weren't many made, except the full-size models, because fuel got cheaper or more abundant. Today, the expectation is that it will never be that way again.

Here in Canada, we extract a lot of bitumen from Tarsands, which are not profitable below $60/ US barrel, so they are not going ahead with newer projects until prices rise again. Offshore oil is plagued with Hurricanes and Cyclones, frozen seas, or rebels, and inland oil (OPEC-controlled) isn't that reliable a source any longer (Venezuela and the Middle-East.)

 

Hello, Carp. Welcome to the forum. Got a good knowledge base here (and a few characters, too).

I don't have an older wagon right now, either, but if I did, I would be doing some modernization of the various vehicle systems as you are suggesting. I'm not a purist for original. If you can make it better without destroying it's original purpose, why not?

I'm gonna give you another suggestion, as well. Don't shy away from a complete performance transplant. Old wagon, with complete modern drivetrain. One of my favorite transplants involves dropping a 5.0 Mustang V-8 into a Volvo 740, like here:

http://www.volvord.com/

Then there's this - the Corvette-powered Volvo 740 wagon:

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/27/the-volvette-tt-ls1-powered-740-wagon/

(There's a video there, too.)

 

Hey there. Here's another angle to consider if you are choosing between a new Honda/Toyota van and an older car (and I agree with Norm on the 1975-1985 era cars...'cause their my favorites ).

The cars that Norm is suggesting are not commanding high prices, whereas the Hondas and Toyotas are. You should be able to find a decent older vehicle and get ok mileage...albeit maybe not as good as a new van. But take into consideration the amount of money you will be spending on that new van vs. the amount of money you would spend on a decent used vehicle. It would take years to recover that money in fuel savings...even if the mileage on the older car was not-so-great.

You get the satisfaction of finding the car that suits you (that isn't like all the rest) and overall, you may save quite a bit of money.

 

Why didn't I think of that?!? I'm a bean-counter (Accountant) and an Engineer, and if anything has been drilled into me, it's TOTAL OPERATING COSTS. Your's is the right argument. PLUS, the older car, if well maintained, APPRECIATES in value. So you could resell it for more than you paid.

 

I know you said 70's/80's but you need to look into the '91-'96 Chevrolet Caprice or Buick Roadmaster wagons.

These are GREAT vehicles! Your choice of a 305, optional 5.7 350 or even an LTI in the '94+ years.

Great gas mileage, V8 performance, plenty of room, dependability, safety features, etc....

Find a nice one, drive it and you'll love it! You can sell the Mazda, buy one of these and have money left over for your personal touches [wheels, etc...] and a few weekends at the beach

Best of luck!

 

I prefer older vehicles for myself. But for my wife and in your case children, I want her/them to be in something safe, reliable and good MPGs is a plus. We got rid of her minivan so she can get her VW (NEW)Beetle. I really miss the minvan. It got 3 less mpg than the VW but the space was fantastic. Remember anything used may have some maintenance issues. Whether it's 2 years old or 20. I do like 370SSV's recomendation. 94+ had lots of hp and decent mileage. Look good hot rodded. Good luck.

 

If you don't mind traveling some here is a place that has some nice vintage wagons which you can update.

http://www.countryclassiccars.com/

 

Thank you everyone for the words of encouragment and wisdom. I'm hoping that this will work out for us, as a wagon will definitely have more character than any minivan

This is my preferred method of getting a reliable wagon. I have been thinking that the old cars got along fine with around 200 hp, and you can easily get that our of a modern V6, which would help the MPG, or get a modern V8 in there with good gearing, and get close, plus have more fun

This is a very valid point, which is a driving factor for why we're looking for an older wagon. Plus, if I find one in good shape/restored, the value should hold steady, not drop like a newer vehicle.

That there is the dilemma. Will an updated (brakes, seat belts, etc) lead sled be as safe as a more modern grocery getter (Caprice wagon)? I don't know but the GM wagons had crossed my mind. Have to give them another look...

On a side note, does anyone know how big the F85 wagons from the early 60's are? Curb weight? Other specs (HP, TQ, interior volume, etc?) There's one online that looks great and don't know much about the Olds.

Thanks and I'm looking forward to more discussions!

 

I would say that you will always compromise on safety by buying an older vehicle, certainly a classic. Next to the seatbelts, think about headrests, impact soft interior, "crumble zone" (I don't know the right english word for it..), airbags, retractable steering wheels, side impact protection, ABS , stability programs, flame retarding materials, etc, etc. Although it sometimes feels nothing happens in the car industry, this is exactly something that has improved enormously.
You can of course improve on some of these issues by upgrading to newer components, but I think we all agree that it will never come to the same standard. I have thought about this many times, but I still want a classic car! But that is surely a personal decision...

 

You mean this one?
http://www.cars-on-line.com/32455.html



It's basically the same car as a '64 - '65 Chevelle. I'd guesstimate the weight as around 3,600 lbs. Standard V-8 was around 330ci I think. It will fit anything all the way up to a 455. Simple 350 with F.I. should be plenty

 

That's the one I was interested in. My wife likes the 50s wagons better... But could be persuaded. Good to know that it's basically a Chevelle, which means good parts availability.

Thanks Krash!

 

My first car was a '63 Olds F-85 Cutlass 2-dr coupe. Different, smaller body than the '64, though, with an ALUMINUM V-8 - same basic engine later used in the Range Rovers.

One thing you will have to really watch out for in shopping for an old vehicle is rust. While certainly you'll find some in a lot of 60's vehicles, it would be rare to find something from the 50's that hasn't been affected by rust. Concentrate on cars from dryer climates - Southern California / Arizona / New Mexico.

 

I recently got 26 mpg on my '91 Olds Custom Cruiser with the Chevy 305. It has the trailer towing package with 3:23 rear gears, but has overdrive tranny to compensate.