Giving up the wagon! Going to trade for a Cadillac (try)

I bought a brand new Edelbrock model 1406 (4 barrel) "Performer Series" today for $324 (tax included in that). Mechanic says he doesnt like quadrajets (stock on my wagon) so I am going with what he likes to work with. Plus the quadrajets are expensive. Mine had a stripped out threads where the fuel filter screwed in, apparently a common problem. New carb should be on by the weekend. My wife is going to kill me when she finds out I did this Oh well, if it runs good it will hopefully be worth the pain I receive from the beating

 

72: I'm glad to learn you decided to give your wagon another chance! Once it's running at full capacity, where will your first road trip be?

tsynek: my '75 has a quadrajet too. why does your mechanic not like them..?

 

My dad has one of those on his '69 Camaro. Never has had a problem.

lol... somewhere short, because I cant afford the gas... lol.

Yeah I have owned alot of early 70s GM cars with Quadra-jets and never had a problem. Its just where this one is 37 years old and had never been rebuilt... everything in it was worn out.

I managed to get it back on this evening after work, but it was getting dark, so I didnt get the choke mechanism or throttle hooked back up, but will get to that tomorrow afternoon and see how she runs. I HOPE this was my issue. Time will tell! I am going to try to do it before I go to church tomorrow night with grandma, but it may be later before I can report.

 

Oh no!

I got the carburator hooked back up this afternoon (very easy), but sad news... the car is still "power less".

Its running smoother now and I thought for sure when I put it in reverse and hit the gas it would take off out of there, but no. I even "floored" it and it just bogs down and lugs out. I mean, it should spin out in mud shouldnt it? It dont.

I am at the end of the rope... aside from installing another engine (which I cant do), I dont know what else to do.

Cant say I havent tried though.

I have to decide now on what to do... either leave it setting for another 2 or 3 years and let it rot down to nothing, or sell/trade it. I would probably have to trade, because I know I cant sell it for what I have invested (which is nearly $4800 at this point).

I would give anything to find another wagon to trade it for... like a NICE RUNNING "ride and drive" small block 73 Caprice Estate wagon or a 71-73 Grand Safari or 71-73 Buick Estate (w/woodgrain). Dont think that will ever happen though - so it may be a sedan I end up trading for if I go that route. I thought someone with a good running small block 73 Caprice wagon would love to have a big block 72 Caprice wagon (that could potentially be a good runner if they can find out whats going on).

I do want to thank everyone for all of the replies and advice and encouragement. Special things to Rob for the timing light, which helped me get that all in order. It will come in handy again in the future I am sure.

 

Well you've started to narrow it down.
Fuel, Spark and Air.
You've eliminated any malfunctioning of the carb, but these things have to be dialed in. I'm not familiar with your carb (whatever it is) so I can't offer anything with regard to particulars on that.
Spark - I hope you've checked an gapped the plugs, although we know what a bitch it can be to get at them. So that's where to start on the electrical, then work your way back upstream. We just had a fellow on the fordsix forum that found a broken spring in distributor, it's easy to check that.
Air - could be a vacuum leak, maybe check the transmission modulator. They are cheap to replace and diaphragms that wear out. And lines become disconnected so trace all the vacuum hoses. As a matter of fact, given the lugging you're describing that might be a good place to start.
A vacuum guage is cheap and one of the best and versatile tools you can learn to use to diagnose air, and engine health.
And a compression guage is cheap too.
A compression test on a warm engine can tell if there is a ring or valve problem.
And of course it all needs to be timed properly with a light....

 

Thanks.

Its the original Quadra-jet carburator.

Timing set.

New plugs and I gapped them to the .35 specs.

The only thing I can think of is that the transmission is causing it.

Its like it starts out in 2nd gear (but it has reverse gear and its low on power too, so I dont think thats it). I have not had the courage to get the car out on the road with the engine issues its had.

The car starts easily and very quickly, so there are no issues with that.

Compression was checked after the cam was installed.

Thanks!

 

Tony,

I haven't been following this real close, but I still say it very well could be a timing issue. Just to make sure, take out the #1 plug (Drivers Side Front) and put your finger over the hole while someone is cracking the engine a little at a time (dis-connect the Coil Wire first). Once you feel the compression stroke (a lot of air being forced out the hole), stop cranking as quick as you can. Then look at the timing mark on the harmonic balancer and see if it lines up close to the timing tab. If it is close, dail it in by hand (turn it till the mark is on zero). Then take off the distributor cap and see if the rotor is real close to the #1 plug hole on the distributor (if you are not sure of the #1 position, just show us a picture). The distributor could be a tooth or two off. If it is not real close, take out the distributor and re-install it to get it in the right place.

Also, even before you start, make sure the plug wires are on right. The firing order is 18436572 on the cap. The engine order is #1 Drivers Side Front, #2 Pass Side Front, etc and continue on (all Odds on the Drivers Side, Evens on the Pass Side). There may even be numbers on the intake showing them. Make sure you are on #1 on the cap and continue clockwise with the firing order.

Now hopefully, as also mentioned earlier, your cam was installed correctly, but follow the above procedure and let us know. It's really not that hard to do.

Bill

 

Tony,

I want to add a little more info on how important the above is. My Mother's car ('71 Caprice, 400 Small Block) was quick when I first started driving it. I was amazed that when I floored it from a stop, it spun the right rear tire (only tried it a handful of times, by the way).

In time the car had steam pouring out of the exhaust and a Chevy mechanic friend of mine knew with no hesitation that it was a Head Gasket. Together we changed both gaskets. The job went well, but soon after I tried to floor it again to spin the wheels and it wouldn't spin. We must have got the distributor a tooth off, but it still ran good and got good mileage so we just left it alone. My point is, if your's is way off, it could be robbing your power.

Bill

 

Thanks Bill. We will check all of that again and with the info you provided. Other than that, I have no idea... its like the car has a 4-cylinder engine and thats no joke.

Its got no oomph.

I have owned many early 70s GM cars and this one has been the worst and lowest powered one I have ever owned.

I will report back any further breakthroughs!

Tony

 

My mechanic doesnt like quadrajets because he states they are harder to rebuild, and aren't as reliable after a rebuild (as an edelbrock or holley for example). Also my wife is pisssed:rant: about my carb purchase, but.........Well no real good answer to that......it is what it is. Hope my wagon runs good after the 1406 edelbrock is finished getting hooked up. Currently waiting on a plate for where the egr valve goes.

72, I cant see you getting what you've put in this wagon back unless you finish it. I know how you feel I swear my mood partially depends on how my cars run.

 

Personally, I like the Q-Jets... But I think they are mis-understood. There is a good publication on them from a guy over on the Pontiac Forum... Mine runs like a 2bbl when I'm nice, and roars like a big 4 when I'm not!

 

Edsel Ford and his team of engineers patented the world's first two-stage,two barrel carbeuretor with vaccuum advance,in 1929.Q-Jets are basically Siamese Twins of those carbs.A friend of mine and I rebuilt two of them.The one for my 68 Colony Park's Mighty 390(actually an Oldsmobile 383,that's another story)and the one for my family's 74 LTD Brougham's 400...As long as you're following the instructions that come with the rebuild kit,it's pretty simple and easy.At least,it was for me and my friend.And we WEREN'T the brightest bulbs on the string.

 

To be honest with you, I am starting to dislike this entire car. I worked on it more this evening and still no luck. It just bogs down... even when I floor it. :banghead3:

A lady at work gave me the # to a guy she knows thats good on older cars, but I cant afford that now. I have a $500 doctor bill I will be facing when I have some surgery on the 1st and my insurance wont pay it all. The rest of my savings is paying off a loan I have wanted to pay for awhile.

Oh well. Its bad times anyway, maybe its time to give up. I am not that mechanically inclined and I dont know of anyone thats really good on engines to help. My dad does, but he is self employeed and he has really not got the time to deal with it and I dont want to ask. Its just depressing having a car you have wanted forever and it turn out to be a clunker. I am not sure what the fate of this car will be. I would like to trade it to another wagon fan that will know how to get this thing right for another wagon (preferrably a good running clamshell 1971-73), but that may not happen.

I am also having major power steering issues (leaks) with my Lexus and have about decided to throw the towel in on it too. I have been told easy ways to bypass a leaky valve, but get too many stories and not sure what to do. I know a Toyota mechanic I might get do it cheap.

If not, I will have my Grand Ville as a daily driver and my Mercedes as a days off car and heck with the rest.

 

Tony,

Did you try my timing idea? The whole thing will take about a half hour to check. If you then find something wrong, it might take longer, but at least you'll know what could be the problem.

Bill

 

Hi Bill. No, somehow I missed that last post of yours, but if I can find someone thats not too busy (all either always work or in school/college) I will try that. I know that the timing set correctly with the timing light, but I know that means nothing if the distributor is wrong?

I am about to put a Ford motor in it.

Thanks again!